Rian Johnson has no plan for Knives Out

three movies in, Knives out Really shows their range. After starting with A mystery in a cozy New England estatefollowed by The sequel is set on a Greek island owned by one of Elon Musk’s tech brosthe series becomes darker with The dead man woke up. This time, director Rian Johnson has crafted the mystery of a locked door inside a small-town church, with a story that explores issues of faith and the divine.

Each film had its own distinct style, but Johnson says there was no master plan to explore each of these genres one by one. “I actually think it’s very important that I follow my instinct for each one of them,” he told me. “I don’t want to plan them in advance.”

before The dead man woke upPremiering theatrically on November 26 (and premiering on Netflix on December 12), I spoke with Johnson about what makes Knives out Different from other mysteries, why the last film is his most personal, the importance of grounding things in the real world, and then EdgeVeil in Glass onionwhether our humble site will appear in the series again.

The interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

Now that you’ve done three of them, is there anything you’ve learned about what makes this series special or unique?

I didn’t really catch a breath or think about the unifying factor. There are two things I touched on very early in this series that served it well, and that’s probably connective tissue. First of all, knowing instinctively just by being a crime fan, the detective is not the main character. All of these movies are based on a character that the audience actually sympathizes with, who has a piece of the game, wants something and can’t get it. Ana (De Armas)’s character is in the first character, Janelle (Monáe)’s character is in the second character, and Josh O’Connor’s character is in this one. In this way, the investigator plays a supporting role.

The other element that was at least unique about this when I started was reading Agatha Christie books growing up, and then seeing adaptations of them, and those adaptations were always period pieces set in England. So they always had a timeless vibe, separate from our current reality. with Knives outI said I would ditch the idea of ​​eternity and just write for the present moment without apology. I’ve tried to do that with all three of these. For me, that’s what gives me the red meat I can delve into while writing this stuff. Mysterious things are fun, but the way the mystery can interact with the things that are on all of our minds in this year, the year of our Lord 2025, that’s where the real juice is for me.

Funny you mention current references. When I walked out of the movie premiere, my co-workers were asking me if it was possible Edge He is in The dead man woke up I had to break the news that we were being replaced by Substack.

Oh my God, I’m sorry. EdgeYou know, I have it in my bookmarks, I check it every day. So he will come back.

For the immortal aspect, The dead man woke up It’s interesting because in a lot of ways, especially visually, it has a sense of being outdated, but it still has those modern references. Was it a challenge balancing these two things?

It’s kind of an instinct. This film takes place in a country church, which itself is an ancient setting. But I was very conscious that, beyond the thematic political elements and all that, I still wanted to make sure that — whether it was Daryl McCormack’s character as an influencer who has his iPhone filming everything, or whether it was the pop culture references — I wanted to make sure that we never lost the thread of what’s happening in the here and now.

Given how quickly everything moves, do you ever worry that these references will be outdated by the time the movie actually opens?

I always worry about that. In these, for example, the two reviews we have on popular culture, they are just a joke; there star wars One and one about Netflix. I didn’t figure that any of this stuff was going anywhere in a year.

With the different themes for each film, have you pre-planned any kind of strategy for the series? For example, I’ll start with a cozy mystery and then work on a gothic locked-door mystery.

Not only was there a lack of planning, but when we made the first product I had no idea if we would be able to make more. I actually think it’s very important that I follow my gut for each one. I don’t want to plan them in advance. In part, I’m having the same experience that audiences have, of experiencing one movie and then, “Okay, what’s something really different to do next?” It’s not that you’re just reacting, there’s so much more to it than that, but that’s part of it for me. When I make a film, I live in that world for several years, it’s a bit like eating the same thing for lunch every day. There is an instinct to try something different and change.

I also don’t want to plan ahead because the style and vibe of the film is very much tied to the content of the film and what it’s about and what its themes are. I especially want to react to where I am in life at that moment. This will be relevant to the world I am reading about, and to the current moment we are all living in. That’s a big part of these films for me. Each one is very much a reaction to the present moment.

So what’s the starting point here then?

It all started with faith. I knew I wanted to do something where I dug a little deeper into myself and nailed it, so I thought the best way to do it was to make it about something very personal. I was raised very Christian. It wasn’t just that I was in a religious family; Christianity and my relationship with Christ were how I shaped the world around me, throughout my childhood and into my early twenties. I’m not a Christian anymore, I’m not a believer. So it’s something that holds a very complex place within me.

The first decision I made was, let’s see if I can have a multi-faceted conversation with myself about this topic that doesn’t seem didactic or wonky, but at the same time not toothless. And let’s see if I can do it in the context of one of these films; Great and entertaining movie Benoit Blanc. This then leads to trying to commit an impossible crime being fun, and it also fits well with this place where miracles are in the air. This led to other decisions about the film.

Since we still don’t know a lot about Benoit at this point, do you find that you’re learning about him yourself as you write each film?

Yes, because I feel like, for me, it’s not that interesting to build a backstory for Blanc. His job is detective in these films. And I want to get to know him through his goal of solving every case that makes up its own movie. This may seem very basic and obvious, but what this translates to me is that it forces me to reveal the character first through the action, but also through his relationship with the protagonist in each film. In this one, Josh O’Connor’s character, Father Jude. I think we learn a lot about Blanc in this story, but we learn it through his relationship with Father Jude as they try to solve this case together. Which is all to say that I don’t want to have some kind of concrete backstory about Blanc that we have to be slaves to. I want to use Blank in every story I tell as effectively as possible.

I know you’ve said before that you treat the construction of each puzzle like designing a crossword puzzle. But what does that actually mean in practice?

Part of that analogy is that it’s just grease. Part of it is having small moments of inspiration, and part of it is staring at it for a while and then grinding it out. But there is also another layer of communication where you are solving problems at every step, and all of these problems need to be intertwined in a way that they form a coherent and complete whole. There is an element of puzzle solving to figure out the mysterious element in this.

Believe it or not, 90 percent of the work of a puzzle goes into making it as simple as possible. I know these movies sound very complicated, but there’s a lot that needs to be done to make sure that the audience’s linear experience while watching them isn’t looking at a crossword puzzle, but rather being drawn through the whole thing. And it’s only when you think back after the movie is over that you see all the complexities and it seems like something much more complicated.